16oz coffee cups

[Eli Kalen]

what do all the trainers think of serving drinks in 16oz cups?
eli

[Rich Abker]

Hey Eli,

Are you talking about 16 oz espresso beverages during training, or are you talking 16 oz drinks versus 12 oz or 24 oz go cups, served to the customers? Can you be just a little more specific. Are you concerned about the size being too large for normal servings, or are you concerned about the 16 oz being too large to use for training purposes?

[Eli Kalen]

In the customer setting what do you think about not serving drinks in 16oz cups. I think that anything above a 12oz cup 16-24oz takes away from the coffee, "Would you like some coffee with your milk" I want to educate the public about what a really good coffee tastes like.
I hope that cleared it up a bit.
I tend to blabber on.
Eli

[Rich Abker]

We can always educate the espresso bar owners and managers, but if we have the consumers demanding larger sizes that may mean that perhaps their pallets have not acclimated to the beautiful bold nature of good espresso. When an espresso bar reaches an historical grocery store coffee consumer, keep in mind, frequently, they are used to drinking "smooth" coffees 8-). In other words they are used to a cup that we think is flavorless. So, In order to keep that potential espresso consumer in the loop, the owners of coffee businesses have adjusted by using more milk. While few hardcore baristai would get caught with a cup size bigger than a 4oz, 6oz, or 8oz, we cant force a newbie to the Specialty Coffee Industry to automatically
have a pallet adjustment. However, since most bars are are continuing to out sell the 20 & 24 ounce go cups with the 12 & 8oz, the newbies generally come around to enjoy the bolder more complex pallett profile.

[Deferio]

Hi Eli,
Trouble is...customers want things to be simple. Baristas who are passionate tend to want to over describe things to the customer. The customer then just gets frustrated and will not venture past their comfort zone.
Approach them with confidence and short concise words that seem to say"you will love this" and they will usually try it.
In my opinion 16 ounce drinks are not going to give the customer an accurate taste of your fine crafted product. (unless you are talking about plain brewed coffee I am assuming this is also about lattes)
The sheer volumes of extra "stuff" in it will bring your baby closer and closer in taste(in the customers eyes) to the non-quality shop down the street. Let THEM make the 12 ounce or 8 ounce drinks and see if the average customer could stand it without running for the condiment bar. Your confidence is shown in that you do not need large volumes of milk to mask flavor.
Key word is CONFIDENCE!
Show your product off with the drink size that makes it clear to see that your coffee is far better.
The food world has a saying..."customers don't know what they like...but they like what they know"
BTW if you don't have it on the menu you will most likely not get requests for it. From my experience simply saying..."Our largest size is a 12 ounce I think you'll really enjoy it"....soothes the savage beast.

[Collin Schneider]

Here's a bit of what I try to impose on all my trainees, might help a little?

Milk Philosophy
Throughout history, beverages have been consumed for two main purposes; Hydration and to receive health/other benefits from the beverage. The 'new beverage age', as we'll call it, has introduced us to a whole new wave of libations which offer themselves without any other cause to drink other than that they have a pleasing taste. 'Taste' alone, is no cause to imbibe, as you will find out in reading further.
As a barista working within this 'new beverage age' your role can become skewed. When most of the beverages you create contain so much dairy, the moral line fades even thinner between giving out a “caffeine boost” and ladening your customers body with unnecessary cholesterol and fat. There are numerous health benefits to coffee, both conventionally brewed methods and espresso, but when you load up on the sweets and dilute it with dairy, you're missing the essence, and the good. Coffee has been proven to show signs of lowering your risk of Parkinson's Disease, Diabetes and colon cancer as well as boosting mental performance and brain health and reducing headaches while increasing physical performance. It even competes with Yerba Mate and other teas in antioxidant levels. The point is, that adding all the 'extras' strips anything worthwhile or healthy away from your coffee drinking experience.
With this said, it's easy to translate the same overall concept with espresso (shorter shorts/ristretto) straight over to milk based drinks; less is more, and is more than often better for you. “Most of the "good" bits from the coffee bean are extracted in the first cup of water passed through the grounds. So when you make a full pot of coffee, the first cup out has the flavor, and most importantly, the good for you stuff that we keep hearing coffee has. But then by running 7 more cups of hot water through, you are essentially extracting the less healthy and more bitter, acidic parts of the coffee bean, including the volatile oils and caffeine which can make drinking coffee a rather stomach-destroying experience for many people.” - Brainready.com
Espresso itself is a testament to this philosophy, as a normal 2oz double is made with approximately 2tbsp coffee and contains 50mg of caffeine (25mg per tbsp) while an 8oz cup of regular coffee brewed from1tbsp ground coffee contains 135mg of caffeine! As you know, espresso is made by forcing a small amount of water through ground coffee very quickly to extract the essence of the coffee's flavor and strongest antioxidant properties, but stopping before you begin breaking down the oils and over-extracting the caffeine. I believe the Italians have it dialed in. In most shops the largest drink served is Cappuccino, which traditionally is no larger than 7oz., but most customers prefer to order their fresh espresso ristretto in a for here demitasse cup, sip, and go. It's my hope, and the premise and objective of this training to raise awareness and commitment to this kind of coffee culture, and combat the rising tide of large and unhealthy milk based espresso drinks.

Obviously this is an incredibly long winded version of anything you would ever tell to a customer, but I really feel like moving customers 'gently' into smaller cup sizes should be at the top of our to do lists. Giving the customer a good experience is one of the few things that takes precedence over this, so I'll usually offer to 'buy' them their first cappuccino or macchiato and promise them that they'll love it or their normal drink is on me. It doesn't work for everyone, but I'd say that 75% of people I propose this to love their new traditional drink, and the other 25% are thrilled that they got a free drink and will usually come back again.

[N. Freeman]

I am not a trainer, buy have been trained. With that in mind, I have seen every size cup used imaginable, but the average observed is always 8 oz or 12 oz. You never know what size shots are used - that leaves only my taste to determine if there will be a return to the store. Few stores want to use glass or china cups and I don’t like paper.

Dimmi cups not included, I use only two size cups, a 200 ml (6.75 oz) for cappuccino and 300 ml (10.1 oz) cup for latte. Only one size shot is used for either cup size - that being 14-14.5 gram of coffee with a light tamp and 2 oz of finished coffee in the cup. For cappuccino, If they like the 200 ml cup strong, I use only 1 to 1.5 oz of steamed milk. If they want it normal, I use 2 to 3 oz of milk and foam on top. All the 300 ml latte cups are just filled up with milk and foam over the double shot (2 oz coffee). Never had a complaint., but sometimes it is noticed they add a little extra sugar to calm it down. Just my way!

[Jesse -D->]

I like your style.

N. Freeman said:

I am not a trainer, buy have been trained. With that in mind, I have seen every size cup used imaginable, but the average observed is always 8 oz or 12 oz. You never know what size shots are used - that leaves only my taste to determine if there will be a return to the store. Few stores want to use glass or china cups and I don’t like paper.

Dimmi cups not included, I use only two size cups, a 200 ml (6.75 oz) for cappuccino and 300 ml (10.1 oz) cup for latte. Only one size shot is used for either cup size - that being 14-14.5 gram of coffee with a light tamp and 2 oz of finished coffee in the cup. For cappuccino, If they like the 200 ml cup strong, I use only 1 to 1.5 oz of steamed milk. If they want it normal, I use 2 to 3 oz of milk and foam on top. All the 300 ml latte cups are just filled up with milk and foam over the double shot (2 oz coffee). Never had a complaint., but sometimes it is noticed they add a little extra sugar to calm it down. Just my way!

[Joseph Plaugher]

This is a really good discussion. I just took over management of a cafe that sells lattes mocha and cappuccinos all in 12, 16, and 20 cups. I hate the big sizes but this is how it has been for years at this cafe. I plan to switch to 6 oz caps and 8 and 10 oz latte and mochas, but I don't know how our customer base will respond. It sounds like some of you are still trying to gain acceptance of the smaller sizes from your customers, maybe some of you have succeeded. I would love to hear about any more successful (or even partly successful) methods or attempts at winning the customer's taste buds over to this superior way of making espresso...