ASCAP fees...how do you deal with them?

[Sue Harnly]

Thanks in advance for any info on this item.....i own a small coffee shop, Eugene Coffee Company and have been hounded by ascap to pay the 300-$400 annual fee to play cd's in my shop. I have consulted my attorney and yes, i have to pay it if i am to comply. I have no problem with the thinking behind ascap and others like them and by all means want the royalties to go to the artists BUT i am guessing the artists get very little of the $ but that is beside the point.

My question, do any of you use a radio type program that is inexpensive, or free such as Pandora, Satellite??? Ideas? Thanks Ya'll!

Sue

[Brady]

From http://www.pandora.com/legal/ ...

"Pandora is for personal use only, that means you can't play Pandora for the patrons in your bar, coffee shop, etc."

If you have questions about other specific streaming services, a quick check of their terms of use should answer them.

On that note, a quick look over the material on the ASCAP, BMI, etc, websites is also time well spent.

[Jason Dominy]

I only mentioned Pandora, because I know of several shops that use it in their shops, including several around our area. Thanks for posting the legal info, bottom line is, I guess, unless your using the radio, or playing music yourself with your own instruments, own songs, and aren't signed up with ASCAP or BMI to handle your song portfolio, you're going to have to pay the piper to play the music. Even if very little of the money goes to the artist, and even if it seems highway robbery sometimes for something that can add very little to your bottom line itself.

Brady said:

From http://www.pandora.com/legal/ ...

"Pandora is for personal use only, that means you can't play Pandora for the patrons in your bar, coffee shop, etc."

If you have questions about other specific streaming services, a quick check of their terms of use should answer them.

On that note, a quick look over the material on the ASCAP, BMI, etc, websites is also time well spent.

[Brian Williams]

It's my understanding that this is where it's going, or at least by design should be. As of now, cafes are a new element in the demographic. We all need to be more involved in and understanding of the process, and force more thought on the process than just a sampling of clear-channels top 100's.

Ask questions.


Brady said:

Royalties in the US are paid out according to how often the artists' compositions are played on a sample of radio stations. The PRO's do not disclose which radio stations are sampled, however it would obviously bias all pop artists and pretty much bypass any artists operating at the fringes - which is usually who we in coffeehouses are preferring. So NONE of the licensing fees that a small cafe would pay would go to the artists they were hiring to play.

That's not to say that I feel that outfits like ASCAP, etc are always bad for musicians. I know several artists that get checks from them when their music is used in films. However, the actions of some of their reps to attempt to collect in cases where there is no cause, and the threats that come along with saying "no thanks", do not benefit the small independent musicians. Its just a situation of a good idea gone wrong, done in by greed.

It is too bad. Maybe the US can get to a situation more like you describe in the future.

[Joseph Robertson]

Brian,
Thank a ton of the best espresso beans for your very clear thought on this topic. I am in complete agreement with you. Time to act instead of re-act to these changing times.
Joe

Brian Williams said:

It's my understanding that this is where it's going, or at least by design should be. As of now, cafes are a new element in the demographic. We all need to be more involved in and understanding of the process, and force more thought on the process than just a sampling of clear-channels top 100's.

Ask questions.


Brady said:

Royalties in the US are paid out according to how often the artists' compositions are played on a sample of radio stations. The PRO's do not disclose which radio stations are sampled, however it would obviously bias all pop artists and pretty much bypass any artists operating at the fringes - which is usually who we in coffeehouses are preferring. So NONE of the licensing fees that a small cafe would pay would go to the artists they were hiring to play.

That's not to say that I feel that outfits like ASCAP, etc are always bad for musicians. I know several artists that get checks from them when their music is used in films. However, the actions of some of their reps to attempt to collect in cases where there is no cause, and the threats that come along with saying "no thanks", do not benefit the small independent musicians. Its just a situation of a good idea gone wrong, done in by greed.

It is too bad. Maybe the US can get to a situation more like you describe in the future.

[Brady]

Agreed. Wouldn't it be great if the SCAA could take the sort of member advocacy/lobbying role that the National Restaurant Association has taken on legislative issues like this? Perhaps they have and I'm just not aware.

Until then, I believe its been said that ASCAP, et al have never lost a court case. Right or wrong, they are certainly much better funded.

Joseph Robertson said:

Brian,
Thank a ton of the best espresso beans for your very clear thought on this topic. I am in complete agreement with you. Time to act instead of re-act to these changing times.
Joe

Brian Williams said:

It's my understanding that this is where it's going, or at least by design should be. As of now, cafes are a new element in the demographic. We all need to be more involved in and understanding of the process, and force more thought on the process than just a sampling of clear-channels top 100's.

Ask questions.


Brady said:

Royalties in the US are paid out according to how often the artists' compositions are played on a sample of radio stations. The PRO's do not disclose which radio stations are sampled, however it would obviously bias all pop artists and pretty much bypass any artists operating at the fringes - which is usually who we in coffeehouses are preferring. So NONE of the licensing fees that a small cafe would pay would go to the artists they were hiring to play.

That's not to say that I feel that outfits like ASCAP, etc are always bad for musicians. I know several artists that get checks from them when their music is used in films. However, the actions of some of their reps to attempt to collect in cases where there is no cause, and the threats that come along with saying "no thanks", do not benefit the small independent musicians. Its just a situation of a good idea gone wrong, done in by greed.

It is too bad. Maybe the US can get to a situation more like you describe in the future.